Club Sub 1.0 Update

[fogger1138]

Eddie, you do realize BBTS is a BUSINESS, right? They're not in this to not make money - of course they're going to offer the Club Sub figures for more than you'd get them through the Club.

Not really sure what your hard-on for them is, but they're pretty much doing things with the same business model as anyone else.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Oh no, I get that...but there's making money, and there's taking advantage of a situation and your customers...the first highway robbery was bad enough...THEN they jacked the price up $20(!) more dollars!!...that's just d!cky...did the club start charging them more?...nope...they just saw an oppertunity to bend over their somehow loyal to getting f*@#ed customers...

I used to be one of those guys...then my eyes were opened...I didn't continue to defend them for some crazy reason, I shopped elsewhere where the store isn't so quick to pass their operating costs off to its customers...

Why the hard on?...I just hate seeing my friends (or anyone really) get taken...I continue to hope I can open others eyes like mine were opened...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Well, I find that their initial pricing was about right. But then they did jack them up another $20 like Eddie said. That sorta shit pisses me off, and out of spite is the reason I'm not canceling my Dice order that was placed at $40. Now it's $60, and I'm not giving them $20 more just for having one more item back in stock.

Petty yes, but between the Club, etailers and eBay, they're driving the prices on this hobby through the roof. $60 for a fucking GI Joe? Even I'm about to tap out soon out of principle.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Petty yes, but between the Club, etailers and eBay, they're driving the prices on this hobby through the roof.

Exactly!...just because they're a business doesn't give them a pass to rip people off...they should be ashamed of themselves...


These are small bits of plastic pieced together...no reason any of us should or should be asked to pay so much for them...even the clubs pricing is unfair...these aren't any different than the ones being sold in stores aside from less being made...the molds aren't new (aside from a couple heads/accessories?) so that excuse can't be used...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Emailed Brian this morning since we got the email saying that Month 2 of the FSS was shipping in 2 weeks. He was quick on the reply and said they'd send me the tracking info on my M1 shipments. So at least there's that. Fingers crossed that the PO just fucked up and didn't deliver it.

 

[fogger1138]

Exactly!...just because they're a business doesn't give them a pass to rip people off...they should be ashamed of themselves...


These are small bits of plastic pieced together...no reason any of us should or should be asked to pay so much for them...even the clubs pricing is unfair...these aren't any different than the ones being sold in stores aside from less being made...the molds aren't new (aside from a couple heads/accessories?) so that excuse can't be used...

I'm sorry, but that, right there, is an entitlement mentality. "I want this, therefore it should be affordable. It's not, therefore I'm being ripped off." or "It's unfair." You're right, it's not fair - it's capitalism. No one is making you pay more than you think is reasonable - you always have the option of not buying, unless it's a staple item.

And yes, there's every reason that exclusive items with an extremely limited run, different paint apps and new tooling would cost more than other items in a widespread release, even if similar. That's pretty basic. I'd bet a goodly sum of money that if we could ever see the cost that the Club is paying to Hasbro per figure, that it's considerably higher than what retailers pay for individual figures.

You can't even compare to the Dollar General figures, as this is a one-shot production run.

Likewise, BBTS is trying to make money. They had to pony up for memberships and subscriptions in the first place, so of course they're going to pass that cost on to you. Of course they're going to charge more for the more desirable figures, they have to offset the possibility of getting stuck with multiples of the lesser figures.

I can't (and so won't) really defend BBTS's increase in price aside from a demand issue, though.

 

[nacho]

Well, to be fair (I guess I'm a BBTS apologist), BBTS was very up front about what they charge for these figures. And like fogger said, of course they are charging more than the club. Tell me this, if you were in the toy business, what would you sell these for? Would you sell them all at cost plus a small markup even if it meant getting stuck with 200 Sure Fires, making the whole endeavor lose money? Tell us your pricing strategy.

They made it clear that they are charging a lot more for the popular figures to offset the cost of getting stuck with the crappy figures. They are offering several of them below the average price per figure through the sub. And they adjusted the prices based on observed demand in order to make sure they don't lose money. I don't fault them for that at all. It's not like they aren't honoring the original pre-order price if you jumped on them early.

You may think they are scalpery, but tell me, who has better prices online? Who has the PoL feature to save on shipping? Who doesn't charge until the pre-order ships? (most charge when the order is placed, including your precious club) Who makes it that easy to cancel pre-orders? Who allows you to cancel items in the shipment without charging any kind of restocking fees?

If you want to see scalpery, head on over to Toywiz. While I've bought plenty of toys from them with no issues, the prices they put on "popular" items makes BBTS look like WM. How about Robot Kingdom (crazy shipping), Brian's toys (nothing in stock, crazy prices), Smalljoes (seriously...), tfsource (high shipping, no pre-order cancellation)... etc etc etc.

Tell us, where should we buy our toys online? I'm really not a BBTS apologist. If there is something better than BBTS, I'm all ears.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

I'm too lazy for this...I hate typing long winded responses...

So, you guys are right, i'm wrong

 

[Mandingo Rex]

I'm too lazy for this...I hate typing long winded responses...

So, you guys are right, i'm wrong

TS;DC.

(Too short, don't care.)

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

You gotta TL;DR for that? ^^

 

[Mandingo Rex]

You gotta TL;DR for that? ^^

Isn't "Too short, don't care" what your rentboys sometimes say to you?

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

sigh...yes *sheds lone tear*

 

[nacho]

Let me shorten it for Eddie:

We should start a toy-buyers union and just tell those scalpery retailers what they can charge, 'cuz, you know, unions are awesome.

 

[fogger1138]

*snort*

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

The problem is, I'm clearly one of the 99% and you guys are loaded 1%ers...we'll never see eye to eye...

 

[nacho]

What?! I'm poor and self employed. But I know enough to dislike forces that interfere with a free market economy. While it often means I cannot afford everything I'd like, I do not begrudge anyone charging whatever they see fit. They will charge a price they think will yield the most profit, and I will choose to buy (or not) accordingly. That's how it works.

 

[fogger1138]

The problem is, I'm clearly one of the 99% and you guys are loaded 1%ers...we'll never see eye to eye...

Not even worth commenting.

 

[nacho]

Eddie just likes to play the role of the downtrodden. I know he secretly buys 3rd Party Transformers like the King of Siam.

He'll pay $40 for an extra Devastator fist, but a MOC joe is too expensive

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Eddie'll pay $40 for an extra Devastator fist, but a MOC joe is too expensive

That was "extra devastating fist", not "extra Devastator fist".

 

[nacho]

I think those cost more than $40...

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Nah, I picked one up forrrr, I mean yeah, uhhh, what nacho said!

 

[Monkeywrench]

Eddie, are you pro union?

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

A joke? ^^

Seriously though, everyone who doesn't own their own company should be...being part of union is like having a team of lawyers fight for you...yeah, sometimes they have to represent dirtbags, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives...

Not sure I really want to get into this because for whatever crazy reason, most of America is against them...envy?...that being the case, I'll be defending them all on my own...not something I look forward to doing being I'm not good at debating anything...

 

[fogger1138]

I work as a contractor for a government agency that has a union.

I hate unions.

 

[nacho]

Unions do a great job of negotiating salaries and benefits for their members, but inherently, these same benefits make the cost of doing anything with union labor ridiculously high.

Unions also have a reputation (deserved or not) of being highly inefficient. You've all heard the stories. A guy can't move a desk from one side of his office to the other without a union mover, and he can't plug in his computer without a union electrician, etc, etc. That mentality really rubs some people the wrong way.

As such, our workforce is not competitive in the global market, and doing anything with unions has a stigma of being slow and inefficient. "Regular" people feel like they have to pay more than they should for union produced goods and services due to these perceived inefficiencies.

That being said, I'm not busting on eddie. I'm glad he's got a good job (even if it is with Ford ) with benefits, so he can keep collecting cool toys. I like Eddie, so I'm going to be pro-Eddie's-union, just not so much with the rest

 

[fogger1138]

Oh hell, Eddie works for Ford as a union member? Yeah, I can almost guarantee he makes more than I do. 1% my ass.

 

[Monkeywrench]

Unions do a great job of negotiating salaries and benefits for their members, but inherently, these same benefits make the cost of doing anything with union labor ridiculously high.

Unions also have a reputation (deserved or not) of being highly inefficient. You've all heard the stories. A guy can't move a desk from one side of his office to the other without a union mover, and he can't plug in his computer without a union electrician, etc, etc. That mentality really rubs some people the wrong way.

As such, our workforce is not competitive in the global market, and doing anything with unions has a stigma of being slow and inefficient. "Regular" people feel like they have to pay more than they should for union produced goods and services due to these perceived inefficiencies.

That being said, I'm not busting on eddie. I'm glad he's got a good job (even if it is with Ford ) with benefits, so he can keep collecting cool toys. I like Eddie, so I'm going to be pro-Eddie's-union, just not so much with the rest

This post is so much win!

I personally hate unions. I realize some of the "good" benefits but man they are silly at times. No thanks to a union.

Also, is that why u can't go into walmarts Eddie?

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Actually, no, its not why...I was going into them up until I watched a movie called "the high cost of low prices" a couple years ago...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

MUNI, San Francisco's transit system, has the most absurd goddamn union ever. Those fuckers make like $60-80k a year or more plus overtime, don't have to call in sick, get paid for 8 hour blocks even if they only work 4, and all sorts of other ridiculous nonsense.

They all need to have their eyes gouged out with rusty forks covered in molten AIDS.

Read this, and try to understand how these asshole bus drivers make this much money for making other people who actually try to get to work late as their "career":

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/driver-salaries-fueling-deficit

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

They all need to have their eyes gouged out with rusty forks covered in molten AIDS.

"The hate is strong in this one"

How the fuck do you come up with something like that?

 

[Monkeywrench]

MUNI, San Francisco's transit system, has the most absurd goddamn union ever. Those fuckers make like $60-80k a year or more plus overtime, don't have to call in sick, get paid for 8 hour blocks even if they only work 4, and all sorts of other ridiculous nonsense.

They all need to have their eyes gouged out with rusty forks covered in molten AIDS.

Read this, and try to understand how these asshole bus drivers make this much money for making other people who actually try to get to work late as their "career":

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/driver-salaries-fueling-deficit

"The hate is strong in this one"

How the fuck do you come up with something like that?

Love it!

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

I soooo badly want to go on a rant right now....you guys are in desperate need of an education on the CURRENT automotive union, not the union of 20+ yrs ago (I also can't speak for unions outside of the auto industry)...

But remember how lazy I am? (probably cause I'm in a union )

 

[fogger1138]

I don't know or pretend to know anything about the automotive unions. Just the ones I've interacted with, which I can't stand.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Kind if I ask why?...the american auto industry has faced some serious tough times recently and because of the that, the unions are more partners with them nowadays than enemies...they NEEDED to cooperate, things are very different...

Maybe the union you speak of (and MRs) haven't been kicked in the nuts yet...

Another thing MR has to consider is the people he's talking about...some times the union isn't the bad guy, but the douches taking of advantage of good programs intended to help everyone, not stunt everyone...

 

[fogger1138]

I know that a lot of the problems with the Metro in DC can be traced to the union.

I also know that the union I deal with at work is a major pain in the ass. Nonperforming employees continue in their positions for years because of union protection. I've been "threatened" with union reprisal more than once for doing my job.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Again, these sound like programs that are meant to do good things, to keep good workers from getting abused, overworked and taken advantage of...but of course, leave it up to the garbage people/members of the world to not only ruin and take advantage of a well intended negotiated rule, but to give the unions a bad name...

It's very difficult for the unions...everyone pays dues, so unfortunately, everyone HAS to be represented equally...


my best friend of 16 yrs is our/my committeeman (lawyer)...he's a brilliant man to say the least...very fair, logical and realistic and works very well with the company...but because of him, I see and hear how unfortunate it is for the union to have to defend to the best of their ability, the a$$holes in the building...yeah, it would be nice if they could get canned outright for being trash, but then that same protection that goes away for the idiots also goes away for the good employees...it sucks, but to protect the good employees, they also have to protect the bad ones...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Well the reason I despise the SFMUNI union is because they're lazy, rude, and the trains/buses don't even show up half the time (this is in part due to the clusterfuck "management" and "design" of the system routes, but not all of the fault) and yet the drivers get paid assloads for doing less than half a half-ass job, if they even show up to work at all.

That in turn gets transferred over to the public/riders, and fare hikes go up. When I moved out here 5 years ago, it was $45 for a month pass, meaning you buy that pass and you ride anything within the city limits without paying per ride. Now, it's $80 or higher, and keeps going up. For me, that's not a big deal, but the average low-wage worker, that is a huge increase. And now I don't think that all rides are covered (like cable cars... They're $6 per ride, one way, no transfers... I could be wrong, but that's just an example).

They have also gone up on their "fines" for "farejumpers". I'd say 50% of the time, it's some lowlife or hobo who is just riding for free. They'll never get the money from them anyways. The rest of the time, it's average people who get fined if the meter isn't working (so you tag your card, and the machine is out... it's still "your fault" for some reason) or if you're on the train for longer than an hour and a half. (Sometimes, the delays are so backed up, that you either have to rebuy another ride, or risk getting ticketed because it takes longer than 1.5 hours to go farther than your original commute. Which is the transit system's fault, not yours.) SF is only 7 miles by 7 miles. There's no reason it should take longer than 30 minutes to get from any point in the city to the other, is my point.

That's the shit that the union protects here. Lazy, good-for-nothing, untrained idiots who basically add to an already slow-as-fuck transit system.

 

[nacho]

But Eddie, that's inherently the issue. The rest of the country doesn't have a protection racket, so the good employees stay and the idiots and assholes are removed with no fuss. It's far more efficient.

And while I think most people agree the idea of unions is good, and they certainly were when they were formed and there were no worker rights or protection laws to speakof. But in today's society, unions are seen as not standing up for the little guy but rather unfairly demanding far more than they deserve in a free market.

The idea of protecting the status and jobs of people who are lazy and worthless in addition to the good employees... that just feels like socialism. Everyone gets treated the same no matter how worthless they are. Fair or not, it undermines the notion that hard work pays off, and slackers don't succeed, and that really troubles lots of people.

Don't take my arguments the wrong way. I respect your opinion and I'm not arguing to convince anyone or get you to stop talking. Quite the opposite. I want to hear the other perspective, as we don't have many union people here. I don't think I'll ever agree with a pro-union mentality, but I hope to understand or gain a little perspective.

 

[MAJOR BLOOD]

Has anyone seen where the club sub thread went? I swear I saw it here somewhere.....

 

[nacho]

Don't go 'round acting like our threads actually stay on-topic...

Here, let me try. Club Sub figures were delayed in Dec at the port in LA... because of one of those damned unions!

There, happy?