G.I.JOE 3 discussion

Apache26

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I'm not a ARAH purest and I believe that despite having a couple cartoon series, lots of comics, and a cartoon movie, the Joes are some of the most uninteresting characters with very little actual background created so I don't fault anyone for breaking canon in the attempt to create an interesting cast of characters.

Like most of you, I grew up with ARAH. I have a lukewarm response to it. I much prefer the original 12" GI Joe concept - that Joe was supposed to be the everyman soldier, Marine, sailor or airman, like your dad was. But that works better in the 12" line and just as that was tailored to a time when there was a mass of WWII and Korean veterans, ARAH was tailored to the VOLAR military and the 1980's.

You guys probably know more about the comics than I do. I only had a couple. But I do remember that Vietnam was a permeating theme in anything military in the 1980's. The GI JOE ARAH story comes out of Vietnam. ALL of the major first tier characters (Duke, Snake Eyes, Stalker, Storm Shadow and Joe Colton) and many of the second tier men (Leatherneck) had a backstory in Vietnam. The blurbs on the filecards always struck me as strikingly accurate on military details - down to the serial numbers and MOS's. That makes sense since Larry Hama was a Vietnam Vet and he wrote them as well as the comics. Hama's Vietnam backstories on the primary characters are pretty rich and subtly match the military's own transition from Vietnam to the Reagan era.

Re-doing the ARAH characters in the 21st century is now a ham-fisted affair. The characters were perfect for their place in time. But I doubt that anyone who is trying to re-imagine Duke and Stalker has the military background of Hama, so we get the "Retaliation" Ultimate Duke filecard that sounds like someone just puked up an article he read about drones. Or we get the "Renegades" filecard that is just a bunch of banalty on how great a military leader Duke is. The backgrounds of all the ARAH characters need to be completely re-worked by someone with real, modern military experience if they are to be recycled. There could be rich history between the Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The overall problem is that HASBRO, aside from being too pussy about what it sells, can't come up with anything cohesive for GI JOE. As a kid, the figures were successful because they followed the same general storyline for over a decade. Everything was 3 3/4". Now, I see more of the 12" "Retaliation" figures with no articulation on sale than 3 3/4" figures, but then below them are a couple of the rehashed Tomahawks and other 3 3/4" vehicles. First we had a cartoon series that was a total bust with toy tie-ins, then on to the movies. With marketing like that, there'll be no traction. Personally, I hate the "secret ninja force" theme. GI JOE was modeled after the military's RDF in the late 1970's.

Frankly, I don't like the changing of races either. But that's because I grew up with images and expectations in my head of the characters based off of the cartoon series. I have a hard time with The Rock as Roadblock. The cartoon character was a much different person. When I first saw Ripcord in the movie I dug deep down and thought, "wait, wasn't he white?" But then again, kids these days don't have that knowledge.

Even as a kid I personally hated COBRA as a concept and I still do. I thought it was too far out. It would not have been politically correct to have JOE fighting nameless Soviets in the 1980's. But I never got into the worldwide terrorist organization that is big enough to field a massive conventional Army of incompetents that no country decides to simply destroy. There's a missing backstory: why isn't the whole U.S. Army fighting COBRA? Is it because the Army is supposed to be ready to fight its own conventional war against the USSR? The U.S. fought skirmishes in Grenada, Lebanon and Panama. Why not make an enemy out of the nameless commie narco terrorists like they did in all the action movies of the 80's (Predator, Commando, etc.)? Regardless, COBRA with their blue and red uniforms never made much sense to me and never will. So in my mind, GI JOE was ALWAYS squeamish about its enemy. Remember in the 1960's that GI JOE was not given an enemy. Don Levine wrote about this. It wasn't until the "Soldiers of the World" line was there a weak tie in with some sort of enemy. But even then, the Nazi, Jap and Russian weren't called enemies.

I think it's time for a GI JOE reboot. New characters (or new stories on the old ones). Get rid of the stupid science fiction gizmos and crazy gear and root JOE into a modern military setting that makes sense for kids who have now grown up hearing about Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm still pissed that GI JOE dropped "A Real American Hero" with the movies. I remember that controversy.
 

Mandingo Rex

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The 1980s was the perfect era for the ARAH Joe story to thrive. The U.S. beat our chests as the World Police, we were the hub of the "free world" versus evil Communism, and we were still pretty fresh off the "Savior of the World" kick of WWII, without actively being in any real war… It was just a "Cold War" based off propaganda and lots of angry stares and threats. (Never mind that fiasco that was Vietnam, which we had no business hopping into.) :rolleyes:

The early 1990's Iraq war was the end of that golden era not just for Joes, but for the U.S. in general. Bush's reaction to 9/11 and the ongoing war in the Middle East hasn't made us look very awesome on the world stage, and even at home. "War" toys will not be tolerated very well, especially during wartime.

The problem with marketing Joes as a predominantly-military toyline or story, is it absolutely will not work right now. It just won't, no matter how much people say it will. I don't think it will ever really be successful again, but they either need to get it right, stop altogether, or fucking stop for awhile and tackle it down the road once things have died down and there's a better market. Repeated false starts have gotten the brand nowhere, as the shelves can easily show us. The second film was a step in the right direction, and even Hasbro/Paramount couldn't get that right with alignment with the brand. That's an in-house brand that they keep fucking up, without outside licensing to worry about. I don't think there's much hope in that, because that's pretty inept if you ask me.
 

K-Tiger

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They really ought to just do an Adventure Team series. Breath of fresh air, watch and see.
 

MMorelock66

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Get rid of the stupid science fiction gizmos and crazy gear and root JOE into a modern military setting that makes sense for kids who have now grown up hearing about Iraq and Afghanistan.



This man deserves a reward. With the large influx of popularity in military video games, it wouldn't be hard for Gijoe to be changed to a modern anti terrorist unit. Task Force 141 from CoD comes to mind.
 

Mandingo Rex

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They really ought to just do an Adventure Team series. Breath of fresh air, watch and see.

I actually think that would probably be a better segue into something successful, to be honest. As much as I want to see my ideal version of a "real" Joe Military toyline/movie/cartoon, I have to be realistic… it ain't happening.

It would also be a good "young'uns" show similar to that stupid Transformers cartoon with the Rescue Bots or whatever it's called.
 

K-Tiger

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Kind of surprised there isn't an old-fashioned action/adventure 'toon out there. The recent Magnum, p.i. marathon really has me interested in a life-after-the-military type of story.
 

Giga Bread

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Again, I just find the comment that Rock wasnt "black enough" strange since I rarely see "duke wasnt blond enough". I admit, someone like Terry Crews (Flint native) would have been great for the role but that's because in my mind, Roadblock is a supporting character. Completely changes when you make him a battle kata master and surviving leader.

Also, I didn't mean the ARAH characters didn't have a background, but a couple lines on the back of a file card that isn't about what their skill but is about how they are mean as "insert animal with a mean disposition" serves little to develop a compelling back story. Other characters with a rich canon, like Batman and Superman, are fleshed out to the point that you could never completely change their look. otherwise you end up with a hip Ms. Marvel who's both an average teenager and practicing Muslim.

Outside of SE, the past wasn't delved into. Stalker's past, growing up a thug in the Detroit ghetto before enlisting, has never been touched on anywhere. The characters that I find are the core characters, need to keep a character continuity. Outside of that, characters like Breaker or Ripcord changing races doesn't bother me. Making a shitty Action Force meets Bond movie where they attempt to make young and hip special operations units with cheesy dialogue does bother me. In my mind, if Wayans and Egypt dude were replaced by white actors, I'd still think it was a shitty movie. Being black or Bedouin didn't do anything negative to those characters.
 

Apache26

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Kind of surprised there isn't an old-fashioned action/adventure 'toon out there. The recent Magnum, p.i. marathon really has me interested in a life-after-the-military type of story.

Magnum P.I. - once again, ghosts of 'Nam haunting the 1980's. But I'd go for that. Adventure Team was supposed to be Joe off being a hairy chested (and hairy faced) badass after his stint in uniform. I think that's a good idea.

BTW, Hasbro is re-purposing GI JOE bodies for their Jurassic Park sets. We can see if the adventure team concept goes anywhere based off of this. I've seen many of the combo packs where the JOE was stolen and the dinosaur left.

With the internet, it's so much more difficult to gauge the market on adventure vs. military. You don't just have TV commercials. I see both sides of the argument. Kids love "Call of Duty", but do they really want to play Army? Toys 'R Us has an aisle full of toy army gear along with the 12" and 3 3/4" Chap Mai stuff. If the military stuff didn't sell, then I doubt Toys 'R Us would dedicate a whole aisle to it.
 

Monkeywrench

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I keep hearing and reading all this nonsense that "military toys" won't sell and won't work. I don't believe that. Until Hasbro actually fuck tries, I still won't believe that. They've tried just about everything fucking else. Time to take the plunge and use many of the things that Apache26 mentioned in that long ass post :)
 

Giga Bread

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I love the idea. Magnum Joe goes searching for an artifact and winds up being chased by cannibals and mercenaries. He survives, next he runs into a valley of prehistoric manlike giant apes.
 

Giga Bread

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I keep hearing and reading all this nonsense that "military toys" won't sell and won't work. I don't believe that. Until Hasbro actually fuck tries, I still won't believe that. They've tried just about everything fucking else. Time to take the plunge and use many of the things that Apache26 mentioned in that long ass post :)

GIJoe won't sell because its a military line competing with TRUs aisle of cheap military junk.
 

Apache26

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No one was saying that the movies stunk just because they changed races. It's just one of those things that for people of a certain age group, there will always be an idea of who these guys are supposed to be and act. When you watch a handful of cartoons as a kid, the characters stick with you. GI JOE was plenty diverse to begin with, so I didn't understand changing around characters for the sake of it. Aside from the tepid acting, I think that the poor reception to Channing Tatum as Duke is that he definitely wasn't blonde haired, blue eyed and cleft chinned. Terry Crews would have made an excellent roadblock.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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No one was saying that the movies stunk just because they changed races. It's just one of those things that for people of a certain age group, there will always be an idea of who these guys are supposed to be and act. When you watch a handful of cartoons as a kid, the characters stick with you. GI JOE was plenty diverse to begin with, so I didn't understand changing around characters for the sake of it. Aside from the tepid acting, I think that the poor reception to Channing Tatum as Duke is that he definitely wasn't blonde haired, blue eyed and cleft chinned. Terry Crews would have made an excellent roadblock.

This this this! *bolded*

I'd almost say GIJOE was/is the most diverse universe there is...why change a characters race when you could just pull any one of the multitudes of diverse characters already available?
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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I heard he had a choice between RB and Gung-Ho...he obviously choose RB...but I think he would've made a much more awesome G-H...he could've backed off the tanning and went with his more whiter skin tone, and grown a handle bar stache...he'd have looked bada$$!

Just had a thought...they should really up the 80's action movie vibe and follow what they're doing with the Expendables franchise...
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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I did NOT see that coming :rolleyes:

He's certainly more in line with what G-H looks like than what RB looks like...G-H always seemed more racially ambiguous to me...when you have a lighter skin tone, you could easily be from one of many backgrounds...my wife for instance has an olive tone...she's been guessed as being Latin, Asian, Indian, middle eastern, Italian, European...that's kinda how I feel about G-H, especially with his accent and where he's from...were he to be sold in a film with a more olive tone, I could easily buy that...

but RB, he was very clearly and obviously an African American man...not an ambiguous "is he black? Is he Arab? Is he Samoan?"...no, he was black like Terry Crews black (like you yourself suggested) ...VERY African American looking...no mistaking that...G-H?...I honestly have no idea what his heritage is...and you can't base it on the toon...I always thought Shipwreck was white...turns out he's Latino...
 

Giga Bread

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Well. GH is most certainly white. His cajun dialect has french roots. But, if you feel compelled to "whiten" the Rock up, then they could easily spray tan him up to make him darker. But either way, you're not going to find a half black-half Samoan character in the joe universe, so I guess we should turn down one of the biggest action stars because Hama didn't write in a half black half Samoan character.

But the point is, ARAH isn't diverse anyways. There's a few hundred that are white, a couple Indians, a few Asians, and maybe a dozen blacks if you dig deep and include throwaway characters like Static Line.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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Ugh...here, you can officially put on your smug face(s)



:D
 

K-Tiger

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Magnum P.I. - once again, ghosts of 'Nam haunting the 1980's. But I'd go for that. Adventure Team was supposed to be Joe off being a hairy chested (and hairy faced) badass after his stint in uniform. I think that's a good idea.


I think that's what I miss about '80s action characters, the military service in Vietnam. There were other conflicts that ran concurrently with the Vietnam conflict that you could derive a character's military experience from. Bush wars in Africa, conflict and war in Israel/Middle East, etc. And yes, you could still have WWII or Korea vets on the team believably.

Anyway, sign me up for an adventure-based take on Joe if Hasbro hasn't got the sack to go full-bore military with Joes.


Well. GH is most certainly white. His cajun dialect has french roots. But, if you feel compelled to "whiten" the Rock up, then they could easily spray tan him up to make him darker. But either way, you're not going to find a half black-half Samoan character in the joe universe, so I guess we should turn down one of the biggest action stars because Hama didn't write in a half black half Samoan character.

Eddie could be on to something with this GH thing. Not in Dwayne Johnson being right for GH, but in GH not being automatically lily white. You could easily work Native American lineage into the whole coon-ass mix.
 

Giga Bread

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You could, and I have no problem with rewriting the character like that. I'm just saying if you are staunchly opposed to changing what the character looked like in 1985, then you can't make big white dude into mixed race Gung Heaux.

Also IMO, Roadblock in Retaliation, is the second black character in the series that was a rewrite of Stalker. Though he was a rewrite of Ripcord, a lot of the background, a lot of his connection to SE (training in battle kata), the automatic second in command, felt a lot like Stalker.

It is interesting that you mention Native American. I always wanted to rewrite SE as a Native American.
 

K-Tiger

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I want to rewrite Raptor as an NA. I always thought he was a militant NA rewrite away from being a great character.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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You could, and I have no problem with rewriting the character like that. I'm just saying if you are staunchly opposed to changing what the character looked like in 1985, then you can't make big white dude into mixed race Gung Heaux...

My problem is that the Rock doesn't look black...he doesn't have the typical, more common African American facial features...making him darker skinned doesn't change that...you can't give me black face and then pass me off for black...just like you couldn't give Terry Crews white face and pass him off for white...we'd both look like our typical race, with atypical skin color...sure, exceptions exist, but more often than not, white people have white facial features, and black people have black facial features...

So that's my problem with Rock...no matter how dark you make him, he doesn't look African American...

I guess since I'm not okay with race changes, and you are, we'll never agree...and that's okay :thumbsup:
 

Giga Bread

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I want to rewrite Raptor as an NA. I always thought he was a militant NA rewrite away from being a great character.

Make him a reservation radical from the 1970's and I see a beautifully crafted villain.
 

K-Tiger

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That's where I was thinking to go with it. It's a bit harder to pull that one off as a modern character, but as one from the '70s it's golden.
 

Giga Bread

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My problem is that the Rock doesn't look black...he doesn't have the typical, more common African American facial features...making him darker skinned doesn't change that...you can't give me black face and then pass me off for black...just like you couldn't give Terry Crews white face and pass him off for white...we'd both look like our typical race, with atypical skin color...sure, exceptions exist, but more often than not, white people have white facial features, and black people have black facial features...

So that's my problem with Rock...no matter how dark you make him, he doesn't look African American...

I guess since I'm not okay with race changes, and you are, we'll never agree...and that's okay :thumbsup:



 

G.I.*EDDIE

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Looks more Mexican/Latino than anything...he doesn't have the more common African American facial features...







.
 
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Fred Broca

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I did NOT see that coming :rolleyes:

He's certainly more in line with what G-H looks like than what RB looks like...G-H always seemed more racially ambiguous to me...when you have a lighter skin tone, you could easily be from one of many backgrounds...that's kinda how I feel about G-H, especially with his accent and where he's from...were he to be sold in a film with a more olive tone, I could easily buy that...

but RB, he was very clearly and obviously an African American man...not an ambiguous "is he black? Is he Arab? Is he Samoan?"...no, he was black like Terry Crews black (like you yourself suggested) ...VERY African American looking...no mistaking that...G-H?...I honestly have no idea what his heritage is...and you can't base it on the toon...

I have to disagree with Eddie on this. From my posting history, y'all can pretty much figure out that I'm a fanboy purist. After all, I constantly bitch about Hugh Jackman being entirely too tall to play Wolverine and The Batman needs to wear his black and gray and blue and gray uniforms in the movies. BTW Ed, there were PLENTY of opportunities for Thor to don his battle helmet in the movie. Why did Edris Elba have his helmet on for most of his screen time, but Hemsworth didn't have his on at all during this film, but forgive my digression.

With all of that being said, I didn't have a problem with The Rock being Roadblock. Of course Terry Crews would have been perfect casting, however, I'm not feeling some kinda way about Johnson playing the part. In the end, The Rock is half black and he has RB's most distinguishing feature, which is his muscular physique.

However, I feel that Gung Ho is one of the few JOEs with a distinctive look. Scarlett is a Southern belle, who I feel should speak with soft Southern accent. Wild Bill is a cowboy. Spirit is a Indian, a shaman at that. Hawk and Duke are all American white boys, and Gung Ho is a big ass Cajun who speaks in that wacky "loosyana Cajun," accent. In my opinion this is Gung Ho.




The Cajun Chef dude, as far as mannerisms, speak and things of that nature.



I always thought Shipwreck was white...turns out he's Latino...

Eddie, he is white. Remember, Latino isn't a race, it's an ethnicity.



The only difference between me and Big Papi is that his people ended up in D.R., while mine ended up here. If David Ortiz tried to claim he was something other than a black man, you'd be like :wtf: :goodone:

But the point is, ARAH isn't diverse anyways. There's a few hundred that are white, a couple Indians, a few Asians, and maybe a dozen blacks if you dig deep and include throwaway characters like Static Line.

I beg to differ. I think that there's more diversity in Joeverse versus the Marvel or DC universes.

I think that's what I miss about '80s action characters, the military service in Vietnam. There were other conflicts that ran concurrently with the Vietnam conflict that you could derive a character's military experience from. Bush wars in Africa, conflict and war in Israel/Middle East, etc. And yes, you could still have WWII or Korea vets on the team believably.

This is where we run into Hasbro's scary p.c. "bitchassness," concerning the issue. If we were to have "Hamaesque," filecards that referenced the JOEs military experience, it would cover their service in Iraq, Afghanistan, and possibly covert missions into Pakistan, Yemen, Iran, etc. Long story short, the JOEs where fighting Islamic extremism in the MidEast and throughout the world.

The first problem is the "peaceful," Muslims throughout the world would protest Hasbro and the company's brand of army men, in conjunction with boycotting the retailers. These groups would feel that Hasbro would be "teaching," American children to be "intolerant," of " their religion of peace." Hell, the Obama administration shies away from the words, "Islamic extremism, Why would Hasbro want to get involved in this hot button issue and potentially alienate buyers of their product and piss the stockholders off by causing the stock prices to drop. Imagine the news stories that would be in the "New York Times," "The Washington Post," MSNBC, and "Young Turks."

Toy Giant Hasbro Uses G. I. JOE to Teach Children to Become Violent and Become Intolerant, Suspicious, and Hateful of Muslims.

The second issue is if the you includes the JOEs past military experience, it could possibly lead into a discussion about religion and politics on JOE related message baords. Of course we all know that grown men are who collect action figures are completely incapable of having a mature discussion about religion and politics (present company excluded.) This would lead to some no-life having moderator on the message board injecting himself into a conversion where the words "Muslim," was mentioned and irregardless of the context that the word, "Muslim," was used, the no-life having moderator would inform you have the message board's bullshit rules and kindly remind you that the message board has certain "buzz words," that would trigger no-life having moderator intervention.

Hell, now that I think about it, maybe this wouldn't be such a bad thing because folks would eventually tired of overly eager no-life having moderators and having to watch every word they typed and they would hopefully find their way here. Anyway....


Anyway, sign me up for an adventure-based take on Joe if Hasbro hasn't got the sack to go full-bore military with Joes.

I'm with it too. This foot in past, while trying to move the brand forward is a halfed-assed approach that's yielding a halfed-assed result. I'm all for retiring "A Real American Hero," or a least putting the brand on hiatus for a minute. As I was having my New Year's cigar, I came up with this idea. Since Hasbro is scared to do what worked with "G. I. JOE," in the past, which have army men and accessories with cutting edge technology. Why not buy the rights to the "Ultimate Solider," brand and use that line as a guinea pig for any and all the ideas that would be used for JOE. I'm counting on my marketing, economics degree holders and M.B.A.s that are on The Fighting 1:18 to tell me about the viability of this idea.

The thing is I'm pretty much sure that somebody who has the ear of the decision makers of the G. I. JOE brand (or possibly the decision maker himself,) frequents sites like this. THEY KNOW what we want from the brand. However, the powers that be or the market research has revealed that JOE we know and love isn't going to make money. However, guys will argue that 25th Anniversary and P.O.C. was the best of what JOE had to offer since the 80's. Personally, I would love to have an off-the-record discussion with the decision makers of the JOE brand and hear their explanation of why another military based JOE brand isn't viable in 2014.


It is interesting that you mention Native American. I always wanted to rewrite SE as a Native American.

I thought he was Japanese, but elaborate. When you say rewrite as a Native American, do you mean as in physical appearance, (e.g. Spirit and Airbourne,) because a lot of there are a lot of white people (especially the ones who own casinos,) are running around here talm 'bout they're Native Americans.
 
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Giga Bread

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But the point is, ARAH isn't diverse anyways. There's a few hundred that are white, a couple Indians, a few Asians, and maybe a dozen blacks if you dig deep and include throwaway characters like Static Line.

I beg to differ. I think that there's more diversity in Joeverse versus the Marvel or DC universes.

So, I don't think either Marvel or DC is all that diverse either. I generally don't talk a lot about Marvel or DC because a lot of it is just really uninteresting to me and try not to compare something I like to either one. Besides, when you have to make a media event around making a hip teenage Muslim Ms. Marvel or a Puerto Rican Spidey, this should be a sign you're not diverse or representative of the US. Besides, GI Joe is representative of the military where millions of normal Americans from different racial backgrounds join together to represent iconic ideas and values.

The reason I'm challenging the notion that ARAH Joe is diverse, is there's a lot of white dudes, then some black dudes, then a couple native americans, a few asians, a few latinos, and robo joe. That generally isn't a very diverse group. Doesn't have to be "Hollywood" diverse, but we don't really need a bunch of token characters. I'm okay if characters get rewritten through casting because I would be an idiot as a casting director if I turned down one of the biggest box office draws simply because I can't find one character that's mixed race.
I think there's one character that I can make the case of having a mixed background and that's Torpedo.






I thought he was Japanese, but elaborate. When you say rewrite as a Native American, do you mean as in physical appearance, (e.g. Spirit and Airbourne,) because a lot of there are a lot of white people (especially the ones who own casinos,) are running around here talm 'bout they're Native Americans.

He and Lame-O-Kura are white.
It's really me taking the warrior-wild card stereotypes of ninja and Indian brave and dropping the more ridiculous one (white ninja) and adopting the more unique one to the Joeverse and giving me the reason for him to stick to being an awesome knife tosser like in the early comics and do away with the sword wielding. Airborne never really got a developed backstory to be anything more than just a regular soldier, IMO. Spirit always bothered me because he felt like a neighbor to F-Troop.

Growing up, there were two Joes that felt like the core to any Joe story. Duke and Snake-Eyes. Soldier with character and a sense of duty. Wild card though loyal, was a loner and whose actions were often insubordinate and dangerous but just as important. One was the ideal America of the Reagan era with his tough demeanor, high character, and small town America personality. Snake Eyes, I always felt, represented the other America that existed and was equally needed. It was one that has a conflicted relationship and history with its country that's more personal but is growing into acceptance, much in the way this country hopefully will some day. Duke feels like a character who just fits in everywhere he's been but I thought making a character who confronts his personal struggles with national identity through enlistment could be an interesting character. A native american character, maybe Sioux, I think can make a great fit as SE. Plus any excuse I can give for getting rid of the ninja crap from his background I'm going to take as a plus. I also kind of wonder what the different North American Native American translations of Snake Eyes would sound like.
 

Fred Broca

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I'm completely okay with race changing if they get a really good actor or actress for the part, which Joe 1 failed to do.

As I said before, they're changing races for placate certain groups and also for reasons of arrogance, "This idea is so fucking dope and compelling of a story line, that I JUST HAVE TO MAKE THIS BULLSHIT CHANGE. Shit makes zero sense.

This made even less sense in RoC because one of the most important, arguably the leading character of the series (until issues 26 and 27,) who was there since issue one, had storylines revolve around, and most importantly WHO HAMA INTENDED TO BE THE JOES FIRST SARGENT was a black man. People would have been severely pissed, but it would have made more sense for Wayans to play Stalker, as opposed to a nominal white character that was only feature for about ten issues. Now that I think about it, Wayans should have been an entirely new character. Question, Giga are you opened to Supes, The Batman, or Diana, being played by somebody other than white people? If not, why not?


I'm so glad you said this...while I know you don't speak for all black people

I thought you knew Eddie, FRED IS THE OFFICIAL SPOKESMAN FOR BLACK PEOPLE. The NAACP had a job opening and I applied. That's why I started the "Ask a Black Guy," thread, http://forums.fighting118th.com/showthread.php?t=5661, but anyway....

I've always thought that if I was black, I'd feel patronized, and that's exactly what you just said...

I personally don't feel patronized, but more insulted because I realize it's a token effort. I most of the movies Hollywood will put out will feature all white casts, for example, Thor and American Hustle. The only movies that will get that will feature all black casts are Tyler Perry flicks, (but he has a niche market, black females,) hell even The Best Man Holidayhad a white dude in it.

I realize that there's a racial elements in America, but I think when it comes to movies, that at the end of the day we all want to see a good flick that's a good dollar value. That's why I have to give props to Lorne Michaels (producer of wack ass SNL,) if you remember in September, some black feminist group was bitching about the lack of black hostess on SNL, this was his quote verbatim"

"We're aware of the problem, but it's not like it's not a priority for us."

What really has me peeved are these upcoming Biblical epics that are coming out "Noah," "Exodus," and the new White Jesus movie. Again, I'm climb upon my militant negro soap box. Hollywood is forever perpetuating this myth that Biblical figures looked like the models in Renaissance era paintings that adorn the ceilings and walls in the Vatican. Well Fred, the Bible is a myth. This discussion isn't about the veracity of stories told in the Old and New Testament, it's about the men and women those stories are about.

To portray Biblical figures as something other than white (especially Jesus and Moses,) is something that a lot people wouldn't be able to process, accept, and handle.

The irony is I fucks with Christian Bale. Dude has played a mass murder, billionaire playboy/superhero, dope fiend washed up boxer, (complete with the accent,) now he's playing some overweight cat from New York in American Hustle, dude has incredible range and is on the Tom Hanks/Daniel Day Lewis status as being one of the greatest actors ever (or least of our generation,) or his name will be in the conversation.

But as Moses:wtf: Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Ridley Scott cast a dude from Wales to play a fucking Egyptian prince? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Hollywood could possibly get away with that shit concerning Cleopatra, considering that her line is descend from Alexander the Great, so it possible that she had a Derek Jeter/Mariah Carey look to her, but Christian Bale as Moses, really nigga???

As much as I love Bale as an actor dude doesn't look anything the paintings on Egyptians left themselves and he sure as hell doesn't have the facial features of the Sphinx or that of Tutankhamun's death mask. That's what I have a problem with, however to have Moses or Jesus played by somebody that looks like Edris Elba or a Semitic looking cat is something a lot of the world couldn't and wouldn't accept. Hell a lot of booty movie girls won't do scenes with black guys, so I can image the controversy if there was a big budget film released by major studios based on Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Daniel, Isaiah, Jesus, Peter, or Paul and the leads were black or Middle Eastern cats.


So does that bring you to the theater?...do you see a white guy changed to black guy and think "I wasn't gonna see that movie, but now that they've patronized me, I'm in!"?

If anything it's a deterrent. Hell, I'm discouraged from seeing the flick if there's a radical change of the uniform worn in the comics, to one worn in the movies. I have a theory, (with the exception of Micaheal Keaton and Nolan's Batman's films,) the further away the uniform gets from the one that's worn in the source material, the wacker the movie will be.

And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I hate ALL race changing...white to black, black to white (does that happen?)...

Terry Fitzgerald in the "Spawn," movie. The producers told McFarlene taht he had to change to the race of one of the characters to the movie wouldn't be categorized as a "black," film. I think it happened in something else too, but don't quote me.

I also didn't like that they used a Korean for a Japanese character...I just watched the extras on The Wolverine, and they made sure to use Japanese actors for Japanese parts, even if the actors weren't known at all...it was very important to them to do so...it made me appreciate the film even more so...

It's little shit like that does make a difference. You ever notice that when they do docudramas, shit like "Lincoln," "Titanic," "The Assassination of Jessie James by Coward Robert Ford, and even in period pieces like the remake of True Grit, close attention is paid to detail. How come in most comic to movie adaptions this attention to detail given most credence. It matters that Logan's height is somewhere between 5'4 and 5'6". It matters that Ororo has blue eyes, people associate Vikings with wearing helmets, so much that on the football team's helmet that a bone horn is coming out of it representative of a helmet. When the Viks changed their logo they change it to this:



So that it makes sense that Thor should have worn his, at a minimum worn his helmet into battle.

Concerning the JOEs, they're a U. S. Special Operations team and COBRA Command is a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world. Correct me if I'm wrong but with the exception of S.E., S.S., Stalker, Scarlett, C. C., The Baroness, Destro, The Twins, and Firefly, most of the characters in the Joeverse don't definitive back stories, and even the characters that were mentioned there's enough to work with to as where there was no need for "accelerator suits," the Duke, The Baroness, and C. C. relationship triangle, Storm Shadow's jealously of Snake Eyes, (which in my opinion diminished and demeaned the character,) and Snake Eye's vow of silence. Question if you were unfamiliar with comics and "G. I. JOE," and you have a preconceived notion of what comic books were and you were making a movie of said comic, which plot do you think would translate better to film:

A)The Joe's are on a mission, there's an accident and in an attempt to save his comrade and (love interest,) Snake Eyes is horribly disfigured by exploding glasses in addition to having his vocal cords permanently damaged.

B) Young kid joins a ninja clan, the young kid sees his master killed and takes a vow silence.

Also which uniform seems more suited for films S. E.'s first uniform (which is a black version of the "green shirt," or that rubber shit had on in RoC? The way JOE Stans caped for the bullshit in RoCwas absolutely unbelievable. Than again I remember somebody saying that RoC was better than TDKR.


I don't...i hope they find the right actor of the established race of the character for the part...

Unless the actor gives such a compelling read that his performance would be considered Oscar worthy, this can be chalked up to lazy placating certain minority groups and extremely lazy casting.

I agree that The Rock looks Latino, mixed with black and Latino, or leaning towards his Polynesian heritage in that picture.

Giga Bread said:
Plus any excuse I can give for getting rid of the ninja crap from his background I'm going to take as a plus.

LOL, Damn the ninjas and the ninja lovers live on "The Figthing 1:18th?
 

Giga Bread

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Aug 20, 2011
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"As I said before, they're changing races for placate certain groups and also for reasons of arrogance, "This idea is so fucking dope and compelling of a story line, that I JUST HAVE TO MAKE THIS BULLSHIT CHANGE. Shit makes zero sense.

This made even less sense in RoC because one of the most important, arguably the leading character of the series (until issues 26 and 27,) who was there since issue one, had storylines revolve around, and most importantly WHO HAMA INTENDED TO BE THE JOES FIRST SARGENT was a black man. People would have been severely pissed, but it would have made more sense for Wayans to play Stalker, as opposed to a nominal white character that was only feature for about ten issues. Now that I think about it, Wayans should have been an entirely new character. Question, Giga are you opened to Supes, The Batman, or Diana, being played by somebody other than white people? If not, why not?"

Ripcord isn't Batman, Supes, or Diana. Him being white or black is as important to the character's identity as Batman going with button snaps or metal slide cases for his utility belt. Superman isn't white, he's Jewish. I get this point. The difference is, those three have a rich origin and a background that is decades old of individual stories. Outside of a core of maybe 6-7 recognizable Joes, many of the characters have very little in the way of a developed background story outside of what military training they have.

But outside of that, the difference is pretty simple. Batman, Supes, Diana are 3 characters I don't care about or have interests in (except maybe Bat films) but I already know more about them and their background than I do about characters like Hard Top, Dee Jay, or Stretcher in a Joe-verse that is my number one love.

Forgot to add. I mentioned it earlier but Retaliation RB had a lot of characteristics of Stalker. With that said, as he's my favorite character, I'm glad they didn't cast Stalker with Wayans. It's one of the few times being PC actually made me happy. I do feel sorry for the few out there who regard Ripcord as their favorite Joe. I just don't why he would be.
 
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