PTE vs GI Joe

lancelot

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(AKA GI Joe is Crucial!)

Something I'd like to dscuss is the sever differences between Power Team Elite toys and modern GI Joe toys. Besides the obvious qualities such as GI Joe having better detailed action figures, and PTE having worth while vehicles and playsets, I really feel one is over powering the other.

I feel that PTE stuff has been suffocating GI Joe toys out of the market for a while now. The reasons I feel this way is because they're available when they need to be and they're more than affordable. Even with the recent price hikes this year on humvees I think parents will still buy tons of these things for their kids this fall. PTE is also exactly what it NEEDS to be, a simple military war toy. GI Joe was originally meant to be a general use military toy and usually drew inspiration from the military, and it can still be that way even with the Joe versus Cobra stuff. Unfortunately Hasbro has this odd relationship with the hardcore fan base. When Hasbro experiments with the property they cry havoc, and when they do something traditional and appease them they're absolutely loyal. But I don't think older fans can keep this toy line going forever, it's a toy after all and children should always be the financial source of future goodness.

Basically I think Hasbro needs to make GI Joe toys more like Power Team elite figures, not in quality but in aesthetic. Characters like Charbroil and crocmaster don't fit the military aesthetic at all and don't serve as convincing spec ops and terrorists respectively. I see them as blatant attempts to appeal to old-school fans when Hasbro should be making Joes with a modern military aesthetic (like the new General Hawk figure). This also means cutting out brightly colored gimmicky character designs, weapons, and vehicles (I know hasbro has molds for normal military Humvees, they should take advantage of those always, like re-release them every year). The reason PTE appeals to kids so much is because it's a simple military toy for playing war, like a bigger and better version of the little plastic green army men we played with as children. Not because they all shoot lazers, miss, and fly around in jet packs wearing brightly colored uniforms shouting cheesy catch phrases (like a super-hero)

Unfortunately, Hasbro is still appealing to the hard core fan base, don't get me wrong, I love it when they make figures of characters like Low-Light, and I even think (as a nerd of course) that the new Lifeline and Sci-FI figures are cool, but most children won't get it and neither will their parents. And with a new Joe movie coming out that will potentially have more zaney experimenting with character designs I fear that GI Joe maybe digging itself into a deeper foxhole (HAR HAR HAR GET IT!!1!1)

I feel that GI Joe could easily compete with PTE and give it some real competition if Hasbro really tried to, but the fandom and the movies have really made things complicated. There aren't enough hippie parents to destroy military toys. Lanard, Unimax, and whatever the company that makes PTE is called, have been constantly proving that for years and still do, so why can't GI Joe be a military toy once more?

What do you guys think?
 
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NSA

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I think however PTE is produced, they have FAR less overhead than Hasbro does when creating the GI JOE toys. I think since M&C (Distrobuter) is located in China, they have some leeway with rules etc, so it allows them to include more stuff (junk) in the items (All the sandbags, etc).

I don't think PTE is HURTING the Joe line at all, as the PTE stuff only shows up for 3-4 months, is located at two or three stores only, and a lot of people have never heard of it. I hadn't ever been to a BigLots before a couple of years ago, so I'd never known what PTE even was.

I do agree with you that Hasbro can learn a thing or two, and may be a good Q/A question for them. Get back to basics. Create military stuff, not this pseudo-fantasy stuff they've been doing for the past 20 years. They say that it's not 'popular' to have war toys now, but I say it's plenty popular, and the news is like free advertising showing Abrams and HMMWV's etc. There are TONS of kids today who's parents are serving in the US Military, I am sure a large percentage of them would like to play 'Army' to be like Dad (or Mom) regardless of the 'adult political' issues at hand.

PTE obviously fails hard at details, their weapons (Worst. Plastic. Ever.), and supply chain (Where's my damn bunkers!!), but they excel at other things, like adding sandbags, or wire fences, or barrels and boxes, etc. They've also gotten pretty dang good at adding detail to their vehicles. At $12 I think the Chinese FAV is a steal, same with some of the HMMWV's ($18 is a little high, but what else can you get?), and the Tank (While smaller than true 1:18) is a great mix of detail and "kids can actually play with it".
 

K-Tiger

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Back in the '80s I've been told that Joe was more vehicle line than a figure line, but that has obviously changed. I think they think vehicles don't sell well, and contrary what some sycophants in the collecting community might say, it's probably because Joe vehicles have sucked pretty hard for a long time.

Firing missiles? How did we managed to go half of the damn ARAH run without those invaluable feature? Tracked vehicles with static treads? What is this, the 1960s? I'm sure they have some empirical data that says kids don't like real treads, but their continue use of that shit irks me. Sure, I know about the new H.I.S.S. (The H.I.S.S. family of suck is another rant altogether), the MOBAT and the Mauler, but the only thing there that may be decent is the Mauler.

Funny, not a fantasy design, but based on a airborne-capable light tank.

PTE has it's issues, but I agree, the cost-value ratio outstrips Hasbro by miles. I'm convinced if you put the man-hours on that Chinese FAV that it would be on-par with at least early 21st and Bbi product. I've been fiddling with it, planning a potential survival vehicle. I haven't see anything from Hasbro that even sparks interest personally.

If KB were still around PTE would be for sale there, and say what you will about availability windows, I can count on it like clockwork. I never know if or when a fucking Joe product is gonna show up. Whether scuttled by Hasbro, distribution clusterfuckery or general lack of support from a retailer doesn't matter to me.

As for that bunker, NSA, maybe they didn't offer it for overseas sales? You'll notice we haven't gotten PLA troops when they most assuredly exist, though we can all guess as to the why of their exclusion.

Maybe it just hasn't shown up yet.


I wish PTE was at Walmart. Replace The Corps! with it. I bet I could count on finding it far more than I ever can Joes.


I'll close this with I love what Hasbro is doing with the figures aside from the shoehorning of useless 25th repaint junk on us, but their vehicles have and will continue to be a sad joke.
 
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Rick

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Target is now selling the 12" Joe Dolls. A number of versions of different current military units. Just like I remember JOES as a kid. I don't know why they went to shirtless and barefoot ninjas flying jets??

Why the difference in lines?

Hasbro, make your little guys like the dolls and I bet they sell great even if you add some futuristic figures that are based somewhat on reality
 

SR_501

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Back in the '80s I've been told that Joe was more vehicle line than a figure line,

Yes, This is correct the first couple of Waves of '80s G.I. Joe line was. The Figures were Accessories to the vehicles.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact we are spoiled by other lines and companies, Such has 21st, BBI, FoV, and PTE. If you think about most of the time we compare Hasbro Products to other products.

For What Hasbro Produces right now there doing good in my book. There trying to bring back the Flavor of the '80s. Sad Part is there going to kill it before it even can grow.
 

K-Tiger

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Eh, they're forcing a pilot into a VTOL drone and calling it a vehicle. That's not good in my books.
 

lancelot

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I'd like to first point out that it's pretty early in the fall quarter to be seeing any of the new PTE stuff. The 12 inch figures aren't even on the shelves yet, but as the months progress several biglots across the country (especially in cities like Lexington KY) will stock more and more of the fancier play-sets and vehicles will appear (or so I betting). The bunkers are cool, but they aren't essential for it's success, but they certainly wouldn't hurt. We will not know if the states are getting them until actual spottings are made or if none are around by November.

for collectors and adult enthusiasts PTE is a little bad in terms of weapons and such, but details like that have never really mattered to children, whom parents are the main financial source of supporting such toy lines. The point is more children are getting and playing with PTE toys than they are GI Joe due to both availability issues, cost issues, and the fact that GI Joe refuses to leave the 1980's behind.

Vehicles like the new Vamp, Skystriker, and even the cobra VTOL dragon whatever are signs of improvement. But availability is killing these designs as they're being made. I have not once seen a Vamp on the store selves since it was first advertised last year.

In regards to Cobra vehicles I'm always a bit more forgiving. Since it's a terrorist organization headed by rich, insane, genius scientist, shit like the Pogo is bound to happen. But that's a more adult point of view (or a man child point of view), I'm not sure that it would fit the para-military terrorist aesthetic in the eyes of children or older people new to the hobby. An updated version of the Stinger, and Hiss tank that more resembles an actual tank would do wonders in my mind. Unless of course they're unavailable.
 
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K-Tiger

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Who the hell really gives a shit about the weapons PTE figures come with when Marauder is around?

I've long since stopped even hoping for Hasbro to make a good vehicle. As long as they bust out 5 star figures like the Shock Trooper on a regular basis that's about all I care about. Let them make Playskool vehicles with lots of weird proportions, glossy plastic and gimmicks or tired-ass retreads of 30-year-old toys for all the man-children collectors.

Frankly I've moved on. Long Live M&C!
 

Rick

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As a 1:18 fan:

GI JOE is great for most figures and a vehicle or two.

PTE: Good for wheeled vehicles and choppers as well as most small accessories and odd items like a horse, ATV or Camel. Figures forget it unless using to fill a vehicle or have in the distance in a dio.

I don't we'll ever see perfection in either line, but that's what makes customizing fun. Sometimes it's great to not have to alter a figure for dio's, but other times I can't wait to buy a JOE fig for the body, FOV for pouches, packs and weapons and a few bottles of paint.
 

lancelot

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If Hasbro can't get their distribution right then the "5 star" figures are going to be too hard to obtain and too expensive.
 

K-Tiger

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That's because they're trying to serve two masters. children, whom toy lines are aimed at, and adult collectors who live with this false sense that they know how to run a toy line.

I have no illusion that PTE vehicles are perfect, but they come a hell of a lot closer than anything Hasbro does.

Jesus, if you need an indicator of how out of touch they are look at the last helicopter they did.
 

NSA

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I haven't had one Hasbro figure that i couldn't get either online or in stores. Maybe at some markup, but nothing ridiculous, especially considering the cost in gas you'd accrue with constant toy runs.

Just buy by the case from hts.com if you're worried. I've found it was easier and more rewarding to just buy what I want online.
 

G.I.*EDDIE

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i'd like to believe PTE is hurting Joe...i'd LOVE for that to actually happen...but it hasn't...Hasbros a big corporation, and if PTE was putting even a dent in Hasbros profits, it'd open their eyes and we'd see them return to the more realistic military vehicles of the early 80's...

i know Hasbro does some, okay, A LOT of dumb stuff, but if PTE was stealing their market, you better believe Hasbro would do something about it...they'd notice what was selling like hotcakes and put out their own version...but again, that just isnt happening...

i wish it would though, cause i'd love to get a vehicle, and a figure and weapons all in the same box and it all be awesome...having to buy a $18 dollar Humvee, a $8 figure and $5-$10 worth of accurate well made weapons is just too much to handle
 

K-Tiger

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Saw a couple kids in the Dollar General the other day.

Know what they were buying?

Corps! two-packs.
 

K-Tiger

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The DG did have those crappy new-sculpt Joes, too.

Even the ekranoplan think Hasbro vehicles are a joke!

 

lancelot

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That's because they're trying to serve two masters. children, whom toy lines are aimed at, and adult collectors who live with this false sense that they know how to run a toy line.

I have no illusion that PTE vehicles are perfect, but they come a hell of a lot closer than anything Hasbro does.

Jesus, if you need an indicator of how out of touch they are look at the last helicopter they did.

There last helicopter? you mean the cobra osprey-ish thing? It's ok for a childrens toy but it's not really something for collectors that are looking for realistic military hardware. The more recent are sort of hit and miss, but at the end of the day they're either too pricey for what your getting (like ghost hawk and doom cycle stuff) or not available in enough retailers.

I haven't had one Hasbro figure that i couldn't get either online or in stores. Maybe at some markup, but nothing ridiculous, especially considering the cost in gas you'd accrue with constant toy runs.

Just buy by the case from hts.com if you're worried. I've found it was easier and more rewarding to just buy what I want online.

true, and hardcore collector probably won't mind the prices, but I do (also don't like to spend that much money at any one time considering that I don't have a job nor the time or qualifications for one yet, got to get the college stuff done first), and I'd imagine parents would rather just pick something up quick at a retailer like wal-mart while they're getting important items or Christmas shopping. Then again that's arguably not Hasbros entire fault due to their recently wackey relationship with retailers like Wal-mart. Maybe the two will sort their shit out but I'm not holding my breath.

i'd like to believe PTE is hurting Joe...i'd LOVE for that to actually happen...but it hasn't...Hasbros a big corporation, and if PTE was putting even a dent in Hasbros profits, it'd open their eyes and we'd see them return to the more realistic military vehicles of the early 80's...

i know Hasbro does some, okay, A LOT of dumb stuff, but if PTE was stealing their market, you better believe Hasbro would do something about it...they'd notice what was selling like hotcakes and put out their own version...but again, that just isnt happening...

i wish it would though, cause i'd love to get a vehicle, and a figure and weapons all in the same box and it all be awesome...having to buy a $18 dollar Humvee, a $8 figure and $5-$10 worth of accurate well made weapons is just too much to handle

Yeah, I suppose that would be reasonable to think. But I get this nagging feeling that Hasbro probably cares more about it's other toy lines like Transformers, and Star Wars that are toy lines that are better defined and always sell to kids. Hasbro may not even really see GI Joe as much of a military toy these days so they may not see the opportunity to compete with PTE. Your part of a Niche market that has unfortunately been forced to go to childrens toys due to the failure of companies like 21st century toys and the status quo of companies like Unimax.
 
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PFunk

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PTE isn't hurting Hasbro's bottom line. The vehicles are made with better concepts in mind, but with much shoddier QA. You cannot deny that Hasbro has been offering great figures, but with vehicles that are pretty laughable, the new Skystriker excluded.

I like PTE stuff because my son can play with it, beat the heck out of it, and I'm not out a whole lot of cash.
 

K-Tiger

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There last helicopter? you mean the cobra osprey-ish thing? It's ok for a childrens toy but it's not really something for collectors that are looking for realistic military hardware. The more recent are sort of hit and miss, but at the end of the day they're either too pricey for what your getting (like ghost hawk and doom cycle stuff) or not available in enough retailers.

No, that piece of dogshit Dragonhawk from RoC. I've made it quite clear that the Cobra hunk of junk will make a great unmanned drone. I expect to see or do a field-based pilot custom.

PTE isn't hurting Hasbro's bottom line. The vehicles are made with better concepts in mind, but with much shoddier QA. You cannot deny that Hasbro has been offering great figures, but with vehicles that are pretty laughable, the new Skystriker excluded.

Figures far aside, because I don't buy PTE for them, but I've never had something go wrong on a PTE vehicle that I wasn't directly responsible for.


Wild, apparently the Reds are gonna revisit the ekranoplan concept.
 

Wild weasel

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hmmm, interesting. Seemed like it went good for them until the one crashed. Any mock-up type or artist interpretation pics?
 

K-Tiger

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I haven't done any sort of research on the "new" one yet.
 

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i'd like to believe PTE is hurting Joe...i'd LOVE for that to actually happen...but it hasn't...Hasbros a big corporation, and if PTE was putting even a dent in Hasbros profits, it'd open their eyes and we'd see them return to the more realistic military vehicles of the early 80's...

i know Hasbro does some, okay, A LOT of dumb stuff, but if PTE was stealing their market, you better believe Hasbro would do something about it...they'd notice what was selling like hotcakes and put out their own version...but again, that just isnt happening...

i wish it would though, cause i'd love to get a vehicle, and a figure and weapons all in the same box and it all be awesome...having to buy a $18 dollar Humvee, a $8 figure and $5-$10 worth of accurate well made weapons is just too much to handle
i so hear ya the prob with pte is the figs are cheaply made if they had joe even if it was dtc or spytroops kid of figs they might do some damage to hasbro but the figs are so cheap that i cant bring my self to buy them. just like the Ateam & terminator figs. they where made so cheap that they couldnt stand up to figs like joe or marvel. hell SW figs are cheap too they could have joe style bodys and sell alot more as i know i would buy them if i could use there parts.
 

lancelot

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No, that piece of dogshit Dragonhawk from RoC. I've made it quite clear that the Cobra hunk of junk will make a great unmanned drone. I expect to see or do a field-based pilot custom.


Oh the Dragon hawk! I got one from tj Max for $16 a year ago. I actually like that one, alot better than the Cobra gunship that was about as aerodynamic as a turd and was fueled by double rainbows. It was a small Joe scale Helicopter that decently fit the Military aesthetic with the nice dark olive green and I definitely prefer the figure of wildbill that came with that over the 25th ann versions. It was a nice toy, but once again not something aimed for someone like you who HAS to have a an accurate 1/18 scale $300 Apache helicopter or something.
 
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K-Tiger

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I think we've clearly established that the only thing superlative about PTE figures is the hip articulation compared to MU figures.

Oh, and the fact that you get a vehicle, dio piece or a metric ton of accessories with them. PoC has more or less rectified the accessory issue, however.

Oh the Dragon hawk! I got one from tj Max for $16 a year ago. I actually like that one, alot better than the Cobra gunship that was about as aerodynamic as a turd and was fueled by double rainbows. It was a small Joe scale Helicopter that decently fit the Military aesthetic with the nice olive green and I definitely prefer the figure of wildbill that came with that over the 25th ann. version.. It was a nice toy, but once again not something aimed for someone like you who HAS to have a an accurate 1/18 scale $300 Apache helicopter or something.

Bullshit. The PTE AH-6 is great and cheaper than the dragonshit.

And I'll have you know that Apache retailed for less than the PIT did.


I don't have to have 100% scale and detail accuracy, (If i did PTE wouldn't be an option) but I DO have to have something better than a Dragonhawk or a fucking block of plastic H.I.S.S.
 
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Wild weasel

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The cobra dropshit made more sense than that green turd. It reminds me of the new chines Z-10 helo with the semi-stealth fuselage. That dragonhawk is THE worste looking toy heli I've seen. I like harold the helicopter from Thomas the train more.
 

K-Tiger

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The cobra dropshit made more sense than that green turd. It reminds me of the new chines Z-10 helo with the semi-stealth fuselage. That dragonhawk is THE worste looking toy heli I've seen. I like harold the helicopter from Thomas the train more.

Harold's based on an H-19. That'd be cool in 1:18, too. ;)
 

lancelot

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I think we've clearly established that the only thing superlative about PTE figures is the hip articulation compared to MU figures.

Oh, and the fact that you get a vehicle, dio piece or a metric ton of accessories with them. PoC has more or less rectified the accessory issue, however.



Bullshit. The PTE AH-6 is great and cheaper than the dragonshit.

And I'll have you know that Apache retailed for less than the PIT did.


I don't have to have 100% scale and detail accuracy, (If i did PTE wouldn't be an option) but I DO have to have something better than a Dragonhawk or a fucking block of plastic H.I.S.S.

The PTE stuff is cheaper and more available than the GI Joe stuff, that is true. But I still stand by my opinion that the Dragonhawk was an ok toy. but it definitely retailed for more than it should have.

The cobra dropshit made more sense than that green turd. It reminds me of the new chines Z-10 helo with the semi-stealth fuselage. That dragonhawk is THE worste looking toy heli I've seen. I like harold the helicopter from Thomas the train more.

 

Wild weasel

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Harold's based on an H-19. That'd be cool in 1:18, too. ;)

Yup, I love that helo! One of my, if not my favorite helo of all time. I got tons of plastic models of them! I especially love the orange navy ones. And the blue navy ones. And the green marine ones. And the yellow navy ones. And the orange and white coats guard ones. And the silver navy ones. You get what I mean :)
 

NSA

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With today's prices the true 1:18 scale stuff is out of the budget for most people unfortunately, but like ktiger said the original msrp for the stuff wasn't that high. People still flocked to the Joe vehicles instead, fueled solely on nostalgia it seems.
 

lancelot

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With today's prices the true 1:18 scale stuff is out of the budget for most people unfortunately, but like ktiger said the original msrp for the stuff wasn't that high. People still flocked to the Joe vehicles instead, fueled solely on nostalgia it seems.

I don't even remember seeing any of the old 1/18 scale stuff on the shelves back in 2007 other than 21st century WWII stuff in wal-mart.

this thread needs a poll ;)

a poll for what?
 

XOC2008

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For me it's pretty simple.. GI Joe for the figs, and PTE for the vehicles. Except in the rare cases that I slap my Shockies in a BBI MH-6.
 

NSA

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I don't even remember seeing any of the old 1/18 scale stuff on the shelves back in 2007 other than 21st century WWII stuff in wal-mart.

I think the 1:18 heyday was in 2001-2005? There abouts? I know I got a bunch of BBI Modern stuff on clearance in 2007 or 2008 at Target. That was pretty much the last hurrah.

Sucks, if they'd of timed it better with the 25th launch I bet they both could have prospered.
 

Wild weasel

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I think the 1:18 heyday was in 2001-2005? There abouts? I know I got a bunch of BBI Modern stuff on clearance in 2007 or 2008 at Target. That was pretty much the last hurrah.

Sucks, if they'd of timed it better with the 25th launch I bet they both could have prospered.

03 to 05 was 21st at wm
 

SR_501

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I wonder how weird it would look to combine PTE figure parts with Hasbro's pieces, Mainly the torso and thighs.... Well hittin' up Big Lots tomorrow.