1/18 Comanche? Opinions welcomed

[bar]

Hey guys.
I started a quick project this week of a totally underscaled Comanche(Just a cheap toy alteration).
In making it(and in posting it over on the Hisstank), i realised there might be a few people out there who would like a Comanche in a scale that would be a nice companion piece for the True Heroes Apache(Which is about 1/28 in reality).
But after spending an hour or so with my digital calipers transposing a set of Comanche plans i found into 1/28... I started thinking that perhaps there might be more people who'd fancy a TRUE 1/18 Comanche hull for custom builds.
I am going to be making a vacform master pattern either way, and it will not take any more time to make it 79cm than it would to make it 55cm("True Heroes scale").
So i expect i know the answer people here will give, but would it be preferable to make it in 1/18? Or would it be a better companion for the Apache in "True Heroes" scale? Also, if anyone knows of a resource where i could get very good plans of the craft that would help. I was working from this image today at work.
Here are pics of the drawings i did today at 55cm long as an idea(The little pilot figure shown in a couple of the images is closer to the proper scale of 1/28. Also shown is the crummy project that started this off and the True Heroes Apache, with the tails lined up to show the size difference of the two in the same scale):

 

[XOC2008]

I dig the idea of a 1/18 scale Comanche, actually.

 

[bar]

I dig the idea of a 1/18 scale Comanche, actually.

Thanks for the reply. It's looking more and more like this project WILL be 1/18.

 

[Cloud Strife]

1/18 is the way to go!

 

[bar]

Brilliant. I am already excited at the notion of a proper 1/18 Commanche on my bench within the next week or two.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm sure it will be awesome when completed. I say this after looking at the other vehicles you've made with styrene. Most impressive!

 

[bar]

I'm sure it will be awesome when completed. I say this after looking at the other vehicles you've made with styrene. Most impressive!

Thanks. I have just recently finished a scratchbuild of a Warhammer based Arvus Lighter with a full lighting system(Full gallery here), and i have a NASA based "What if?" craft on the bench too.
I've always fancied building a decently sized Comanche. And i suppose there's no time like the present.
Thanks for posting.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The Arvus Lighter just blew my mind, man! Was all of that scratch built?

Also, where are the figures in static poses from?

 

[bar]

The Arvus Lighter just blew my mind, man! Was all of that scratch built?

Also, where are the figures in static poses from?

The figures are mostly 1/20 Brickworks figures from Japan. There are a few in the lineup that are Hasegawa styrene Ma.K figures. Just a bit shorter than Joes, as you can see from this pic with a Joe in the middle of the group.
The Arvus is indeed a complete scratchbuild. I did start off using engines made from plumbing parts, but realised i needed to use the engines to contain a lot of wiring, so eventually switched to having them as hollow tubes with detailing. All the steps i took can be seen in the thread i linked to in my post above. But if you want specific information on the build, be sure and just ask.

 

[Wild weasel]

I'd be interested in either scale, jsut having a "realistic" comanche would be cool as fuck!

 

[bar]

I'd be interested in either scale, just having a "realistic" comanche would be cool as fuck!

Thanks for your reply.
The more i think about it, the more i realise it would be a wasted oppotunity to make it too small. I'll likely only ever build one Comanche, so i might as well make it a good one.
The correct shape, correctly proportioned, and smooth as a baby's bottom.
If anyone wants to open the gear bays they will be able to, and likely it will be possible for someone with the right know-how to make the damned thing fly, lol.

 

[Wild weasel]

^ I could make one fly, I got like 2 T-rex 450's which would be similar in size

you can see one here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exN75Bytq_o

I'm assuming this will be vacumnformed styrne and resin?

 

[bar]

^ I could make one fly, I got like 2 T-rex 450's which would be similar in size

you can see one here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exN75Bytq_o

I'm assuming this will be vacumnformed styrne and resin?

First of all... DAMN! at that guys skill levels. I expect not everyone has that level of proficiency with an R/C chopper....
As for the Comanche. Vacform hull, and possibly some resin bits. The main rotor would likely need to be resin.
Cabin could be scratchbuilt by a builder of moderate proficiency from simple styrene sheeting.
I expect the hull would be less than $40 even in 1/18(But the company that does my vacforming would have to price it after i make the master pattern).
I am not too heavy into resin casting. Just simple stuff really. But the rotor looks easy enough to do. The rest could be done on a per-item basis based on what everyone wants for their build.
Landing gear would be very easy to scratchbuild even for a novice, and the canopy panels are all flat plates, so i wouldn't even need to get the canopy done in clear. A few sheets of clear styrene sheet and a pencil and you are on your way. Cut out the window holes and stick in the clear parts.
Once the hull is made, the difficult part is over.
And, i would relish seeing an R/C pilot fly one...

 

[K-Tiger]

As they say on the internet: "1:18 or GTFO". Joescale is for (man)children.

 

[ThunderDan19]

As they say on the internet: "1:18 or GTFO". Joescale is for (man)children.

I'm Thunderdan19 and I endorse this message...

Yeah, a true 1:18 Comanche would be EPIC...

 

[bar]

Well, fear not, guys.
I'm on it.
I will be up at work on monday, and i have a new set of plans to work from so i will get it all sized up for 1/18 and transferred onto MDF.
Then this show will be on the road.

 

[Fled74]

I'm Thunderdan19 and I endorse this message...

Yeah, a true 1:18 Comanche would be EPIC...

Agreed!

 

[XOC2008]

Well, fear not, guys.
I'm on it.
I will be up at work on monday, and i have a new set of plans to work from so i will get it all sized up for 1/18 and transferred onto MDF.
Then this show will be on the road.

Where the hell is my "LIKE" button??

 

[bar]

Where the hell is my "LIKE" button??

Lol. Thanks a lot. Maybe just post LIKE!!!!


Okay. I managed to get the time today to transfer the(Slightly more detailed plans) onto a sheet of styrene(I didn't have any paper long enough for a 1/18 Comanche hull profile!).
Shown with the "True Heroes" scale plans i did last week(1/28), showing the difference between something that could fit Joes in a pinch, and a properly scaled 1/18 craft.
Some details might be slightly off, but this is just a 2D drawing right now. It will be sorted when i get the shape built.
For now, please marvel at how big this sucker will be when it's done...(The main hull outline itself is more than 12cm longer than the True Heroes Apache BOX...)
As usual, all comments are welcomed.

 

[K-Tiger]

Hmm, may give me a use for that Super Cobra crew section.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

i can't wait to see what you do with this...judging by your other work, it'll be nothing short of spectacular i'm sure

 

[bar]

Hmm, may give me a use for that Super Cobra crew section.

Yes. I think that will work fine. I just spent the last hour and a half researching this thing on a forum populated by guys who worked on the two prototypes.
The interior was spartan!

i can't wait to see what you do with this...judging by your other work, it'll be nothing short of spectacular i'm sure

Thanks a lot. It's actually quite a simple shape so it should be easy to replicate. It's all angles. The hardest part will be replicating the canted angle of the tail while still keeping it as part of the hull. But i have worked out a way to do it. If i have time tomorrow, i will cut out the hull shape from styrene and get those pieces of MDF off to a woodworking company to have the risers made. Once the risers are done, it's only a matter of getting the hull done.
I can imagine how great the builds of this one are going to be.
I am even picturing a great twin boom tiltrotor variant...

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

what kinda glue do you use to glue your styrene?

 

[bar]

what kinda glue do you use to glue your styrene?

It normally depends on the function of the piece in question.
If it's purely structural and i have the time to wait, i use normal polystyrene cement.
Used at the join between two pieces of styrene, it melts both parts slightly and when the cement elements evaporate, the join is as strong as a weld. I tend to gravitate towards polystyrene cement for that reason, when working in styrene. If you are building up structure, you have to wait overnight till it's properly cured, but the strength is not something you can get with other adhesives. Even marine epoxy doesn't make that molecular bond that a plastic welding agent will.
Of course if you are mixing materials, and trying to glue styrene to something other than styrene, Cyanoacrylate superglues(In concert with Zip-Kicker superglue catalyst), would be your best bet(As long as you are not trying to glue canopies together, in which case i'd normally use Future).
Sorry. I have probably been too long winded with that answer...

 

[Wild weasel]

styrene glue, duh

I'd assume bar is using liquid glue(testors makes some good liquid glue but there are many brands). There is also tube glue, but liquid glue is the way to go

 

[bar]

I didn't mean to sound like a lecturer...
I use Humbrol Liquid Poly.

I have a little base for the bottle that i made myself from a little piece of drainage pipe and a square of 6mm MDF.
I used to knock the bottle over a lot... This way it can never be knocked over....
You can see the bottle in it's little holder in the background in this shot:

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

definitely not too long winded...a good thurough answer is always prefered...

thanks!

i use some that has MEK in it...is this what you are talking about?...it does take a while to dry...

i knocked mine over once...good thing it was on a matt like the one you have in that picture...my table woulda been f*@#ed...the glue did really mess up the matt though

 

[bar]

definitely not too long winded...a good thurough answer is always prefered...

thanks!

i use some that has MEK in it...is this what you are talking about?...it does take a while to dry

That's the stuff. I find that if you are careful, you can build up a lot of structure fast, but it will need an overnight curing if you are going to be manhandling the item.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

my problem, since it dries so slow, is getting it to stay in position while it dries...have to get pretty crafty making things to hold things that i'm gluing, lol

 

[bar]

my problem, since it dries so slow, is getting it to stay in position while it dries...have to get pretty crafty making things to hold things that i'm gluing, lol

Well, if you are using the styrene to create structure, you can use more styrene pieces to abut the glued piece and hold it in place.
You really can make anything out of styrene. Whether it's angular craft, or making structure to add filler to and make an organic shape. It's all doable with styrene.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

yeah, i've made a few things, but nothing even close to the elaborate things you've done...

 

[bar]

yeah, i've made a few things, but nothing even close to the elaborate things you've done...

No time like the present though.
There is nothing you can imagine that cannot be built with some styrene ribs and some filler. It's all about thinking outside the box(I know that's a bit of a buzz phrase, but i swear by it). I mastered a 1/24 scale Jedi Starfighter model kit a while back. I couldn't work out how to do the cockpit shape and the canopy. It was very organic. I struggled with it for a while. Then i realised i could make a solid version, make a mould and get a resin casting, and then hollow out one of the castings, whilst using the other as a vacform master pattern. It may seem like a perfect no brainer, but it was an epiphany for me. That you can have an intermediate stage to making a final piece.
For me, i find that most people can imagine a lot, but can't imagine that they could build any craft from their imagination.
I see vacforming as a cheap and easy way to produce lightweight craft, and in styrene no less!
If you can make the shape from your imagination as a solid piece(In two halves), it can be vacformed to give you a hollow shell to work with.
There's no limit to the stuff you can make models with. I am planning to save resin on this vacform master by filling the styrene shells with concrete. It will add incredible strength and also has great heat absorbtion properties for the vacforming.
Think outside the box!

 

[fogger1138]

Care to share exactly how you'd go about using vacforming to make something?

 

[bar]

Care to share exactly how you'd go about using vacforming to make something?

Of course.
You simply make your master pattern in something solid that will survive the heat of the vacforming machine. If the part has multiple pieces, you can take the pieces to the place where you are getting the work done(I have a professional vacforming company less than a mile from work and i get them to do all my forming). I usually pop in with the pieces, and one of their specialists gives me pointers on how to mount them on a base(Although now, i tend to have an idea what they need right off the bat, after dealing with them a few times now). The base is just something flat, and you can drill little holes around the edge of your master so the air draws the plastic tight to the edge.
When my master is secured to the base, i usually pop down and see what they think. On occasion, one of them points out something i didn't know, and i have to take it back and do some minor alteration but, generally, they take it off my hands and give me a call when they have done a test shot. A test shot is required to make sure there are no serious problems with the master. If the test shot looks okay, they get to work making however many i want of that piece.
That can vary depending on what i am getting done.
The basic idea is that your master is solid and they heat up plastic on a frame above the master. Under the master is a mesh grating that has vacuum suction underneath. When they bring down the drooping plastic frame onto your master, the vacuum sucks the plastic into the exact shape of your master(Taking into account the thickness of your material).
When you get the vacform, you just cut the pieces out of the sheet and pop them together(It's easy to tape them together for fit purposes first and glue them later once you are sure you won't need to go back inside).
Here are a few pics.

This one was my attempt at an "Old Republic-Era" Jedi Starfighter. I was looking for a totally retro "WWII-In-Space" look.

 

[bar]

And this one was an idea for a "NASA Space Fighter":

 

[bar]

But if i seem to have missed out on any details you wanted to know, please be sure and ask.

 

[fogger1138]

No, that's very helpful. Once I get around to doing this I may have more, though.

 

[bar]

No, that's very helpful. Once I get around to doing this I may have more, though.

No problem.
I'll be as much help as i can.
You can very quickly rough up your pattern with wood or(If you are making a complex organic shape), with ribs and filler. Then it's just a matter of finding someone with a vacforming machine. I know you are a little bit away, but i found a place in Baltimore(Maryland Thermoform). They may or may not be willing to do little jobs for you. I find it's better to deal with a company of professionals. If you made yourself a vacform machine, sure you could do it all yourself, but you might waste some materials on the way to learning the tricks. These folks will ALREADY know all the tricks, and will never waste materials. Of course, you'd have to contact them to find out if they will deal with the man on the street as opposed to larger companies. Usually if you pop in and have a word with the boss stating up front that you are just doing it for your hobby, they will understand and be willing to help you out.

The place i use for my work prices my parts on a "per job" basis. If the parts i have are not suitable to form, normally they would do the legwork for the client and fix the problems, but i am doing this on a budget, so they just tell ME what's wrong, and i go back and fix the problem. When i present them the parts, they stick them on a shelf and do the work for me when they get a chance inbetween "proper" jobs. So they keep the cost down for me. Sometimes i get the parts back in a couple of days. Sometimes it takes a couple of weeks if they have larger jobs on for bigger clients.
I only need them a couple of times a year. But they are always willing to help.
It doesn't do any harm to ask. The worst they can do is say no.
I'm lucky having them on my doorstep i suppose.
I hope this all helps.

 

[bar]

Okay. I got the styrene shape cut out and used it as a template to draw the shape onto two pieces of MDF that are screwed together.
The reason for this is that when the shape is cut out with the pieces screwed together, the two pieces will perfectly mirror each other. Then the two sides will be made onto these MDF risers. I am going to make the forward gun pod part separate. It's more important that the bottom of the hull be flat. I think the best way to access the cockpit during and after assembly will be to have the cockpit floor removable anyway, so it will be better to leave the floor for access rather than be hamstrung by a join with the pod in the middle.
I am hoping to be able to find a place tomorrow to saw the excess from the MDF(All the black parts will be removed). More info when i get that done.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

you know, with your skills, you could make a V-22...you'd be VERYU popular

so your going to have the floor drop out like on the Night Raven?