Takara Transformers

[nacho]

Well, you know my thoughts on Alt/BTs. [nerd_rage] I would argue that Dodge Viper Lambor was one of my biggest disappointments in all of TF collecting. That mold is a colossal piece of shit. The weird feet, the chicken legs, the head that isn't even close, not to mention the overwhelming volume of kibble and floppy joints. And it's not a Countach. I don't know why they didn't paint it green and give it a new name b/c it sure as hell wasn't Sideswipe to me. Ugh. [/nerd_rage]

But I recognize I'm a G1 slave, so the Alt was just a complete travesty for me. If I had won a contest where I got to select the next MP, Sideswipe would have been my pick without hesitation.

While we haven't had too many 'con molds, between Takara and iGear, I have way more decepticons than I do autobots, so I welcome some more '84 characters. We're already getting the stunning MP Soundwave from a 3rd party, so it lessens the need for more 'cons all that much more.

I have slowly stopped distinguishing between HasTak and the quality 3rd party makers. As long as they look ok on the shelf, I'm happy.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Truthfully, whoever releases the first Soundwave, I'll get it. Hell, I may even get the over-priced Takara one. He's one figure that, if done right, I can never get enough of. Sadly, I only own the reissue TRU version from a few years ago. I never had him as a child, and while that was one of the better G1 figures, he's still not the ideal Soundwave.

I've heard rumors that Takara has one in the works, but if they don't show a prototype soon, they're definitely going to risk losing a market share to that amazing 3rd party one.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

you know what would be crazy awesome?...if they made MP sized Stunticons...Sideswipe got me thinking

 

[nacho]

Yeah, Breakdown wouldn't be a simple repaint like Red Alert, but it would take less rigging and retooling than Sunstreaker. Sunstreaker might as well be a totally new design given how they are completely different in every way except the shape of the alt mode shell.

But if they did all the Stunticons... I think some people's heads would explode. And then they'd complain about it being too big and too expensive. Seriously, TF fans are so hard to please. It makes Joe fans look tame.

But it seems as though some on other boards are surprised by the Sideswipe announcement because he's not prominent enough, i.e. not leader class. Apparently everyone expected MP12 to be either a white MP10 repaint (i.e. Ultra Magnus) or Galvatron. While either of those would be ok I suppose, nothing gets my motor running like '84 autobots, especially the fast cars...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

I'm not... "mad" per se, but I am surprised. Really, really surprised. I definitely think there are more important ones that would be hotter sellers, such as a proper Ultra Magnus with armor, or Galvatron, or a re-sized/re-designed Megatron to fit MP-10, Soundwave, Shockwave... Then maybe even guys like Ironhide or Ratchet who are larger bots and can easily be repainted from one to the other.

I think 'Bot cars are a little out of left field, no matter how nice it is to get a new mold. I just hope they don't sell mediocrely, and tank the line. That's the concern I have with Sideswipe, who isn't as hot a seller as even Bumblebee would've been.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

I'm actually happy to see them taking a step away from the typical popular characters...just cause they made a new smaller Prime, I don't think they should go back and redo all the other ones...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

The only one they need to redo is Megs. He's outlandishly big, and a lot of folks were unhappy with the original one. They need to include his stock, a better-scaled cannon, better legs, and even a better head.

He's one of my favorites, don't get me wrong. But I also see a lot of room for improvement. And he stands out now like a sore thumb. I never liked how he was so much bigger than all the others, anyways.

MP-02 Ultra Magnus was never really UM, really. A white Prime repaint without the trailer armor does not an Ultra Magnus make.

 

[nacho]

I'll agree that armored UM and MP10-scaled Megs should be on the table, but I like that we get something unexpected in between the repaint/rehash/rescale. Sideswipe is A-list in my book.

However, I figured that if they started doing the '84 cars, the obvious choice would be a 240/280Z. There are three different characters that could use that one.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

I know. It's the inclusion of Sideswipe who is the oddball pick. I fully expect to see them do the Sunstreaker repaint (or a repaint of SOME sorts.) I mean, I guess we could get Red Alert, like you said.

Mirage they could do a clear repaint, Bumblebee they could reskin as Cliffjumper (not optimal but that's their M.O.), the Zs they could get at least 3 out of, Ratchet/Ironhide, Trailbreaker/Hoist, etc...

Anyways, he looks awesome. I just hope they don't take forever to get him out.

 

[Goldbug]

MP Soundwave is a possibility.
http://www.seibertron.com/transform...reissue-fortress-maximus-possibilities/24260/

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Meh. I'll believe it when I see prototype pics rolling out.

The 3rd party one looks amazing. If they release all 4-5 original cassettes (Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage, Laserbeak, Ratbat) I'll get whichever comes out first. Even if Takara releases coneheads, I won't get them. The iGear ones are perfect.

MP-10 looks WAY better than that tiny MP-01 that iGear released... But if I hadn't gotten MP-01 when I did, I may have gotten the smaller "Faith Leader" when iGear released it. (Of course, that had nothing to do with iGear's design capabilities... It was just a copied, down-sized copy of MP-01). I don't think I'll need to hold out for an official MP Soundwave if the final product from the 3rd party looks as good as the prototypes, which are stellar.

It also says in that thread that MP-10 may get repainted as an Ultra Magnus with armor. I figured that was the secondary reason in releasing a new Optimus mold, and maybe the justifier for the cost of a new mold due to the repaint potential. (The first being that the scale has shifted to a smaller size and an Optimus will always sell well, but he was also sort of due a redesign after Rodimus was released.)

Thanks for the link, though! I'm stoked about more MPs, regardless of who the hell makes them or what they are, so long as they're not fucking Starscream or another Optimus.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

you guys seen this fan-color?...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Is that a fan-colored piece? Or "official" third-party mockup? I'm buying the shit out of that if it's the final look.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

its a fan 'shop job from TFW

heres another...

 

[Mandingo Rex]

I'll end up getting that Thundercracker... Dammit.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

i know...once i get SS, i have a feeling TC will be NEEDED

 

[Mandingo Rex]

If I didn't own 2 Starscreams already, I'd get theirs. Hell, I may get theirs still and sell off both of mine. Hmm...

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

$100 shipped...not a bad deal

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Shh! I need more space! Or to get rid of my Takara Thundercracker and Starscream...

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Shh! I need more space! Or to get rid of my Takara Thundercracker and Starscream...

......................................................................that ^

 

[nacho]

I like the takara boxes too much to get rid of my official SS and TC... so black and shiny. They look as nice as the toys. But the igear versions are superior in design and color schemes.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I don't know if you have already seen this or not, but thought you might find it interesting:

http://tformers.com/article.php?sid...40_22747300_10150662794626740#f1e3ca0ca4225ca

It looks like Hasbro is going to pursue legal action against iGear, TFC Toys, PerfectEffect and others.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

likely nothing will come of it...they'll spend more just trying to do something about it than its worth...they're better off spending the money on better products to get us not need 3rd partys to exsist

 

[Mandingo Rex]

The problem is, most of them are in China, which is like a digital wild west as far as controlling sales of illegal bootlegs, etc. At best, they could maybe hop on the "Pirate Bay" type site blocking in the US or other countries.

I would normally be against copyright/trademark infringement of intellectual property, but it's gotten to the point that Hasbro and Takara can fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.

In the past year, I've bought TWO official Transformers: MP Rodimus and MP-10. Neither from Hasbro, but Takara proper.

I have bought TWELVE 3rd party transformers, and I'll likely buy more this year. Why? Because they're making new molds that rival or surpass the production and quality of Takara, and it's not the same two fucking molds or characters that we've seen year after year for years.

The Insecticons, Constructicons and MP Seekers are in my house. I still plan to get that upcoming Soundwave and Ironhide and Ratchet, and anything else that Hasbro fails to make. Will I get the MP-12 version of Sideswipe? Most definitely. But in the meantime, the third party guys are running circles around them.

The embarrassing part is, Hasbro/Takara are the varsity team! And they're getting their asses handed to them by the JV team.

 

[nacho]

To be fair, HasTak is not making or designing 99% of their products to be high-end collector's items. Excluding the MP line, everything they make is supposed to be a mass-market, cheap-as-hell toy to sell at WM.

They aren't even playing in the $50 insecticon market. I suppose you could argue they should, but if they did, even at a ridiculous selling price, the low volumes likely don't make a blip on their revenue charts. They make TONS more money pushing out a repaint to mass market. That's their game.

My guess is they don't mind the 3rd parties in principle (as they only push the popularity of the brand) and merely have to posture and make formal statements against 3rd parties for legal purposes.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Perhaps. To me, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of stepping on toes, other than making better products that the originator of the brand themselves can't produce anymore.

I agree with you on Hasbro/Takara not even focusing on collectors. They don't need to, nor should they. So I wish they'd just leave these 3rd party guys alone and hopefully it's just them rabble-rabbling so they look like they're doing something.

 

[nacho]

Perhaps. To me, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of stepping on toes, other than making better products that the originator of the brand themselves can't produce anymore.

I agree with you on Hasbro/Takara not even focusing on collectors. They don't need to, nor should they. So I wish they'd just leave these 3rd party guys alone and hopefully it's just them rabble-rabbling so they look like they're doing something.

Emphasis mine: You say they can't. I say they choose not to. Better sculpts and better articulation cost a ton of money to design and produce. Thus why all the 3rd party stuff costs a small fortune by comparison. HasTak knows that market is EXTREMELY limited. Thus they don't bother. I know they could if there was real money in it. The MP line tell us they CAN. It's just not worth the effort to them. The ROI is too small.

The 3rd party sales do nothing but drive interest in the property. Rarely does any 3rd party project conflict with an official HasTak release. HasTak wasn't going to build a set of $50/ea insecticons. They weren't going to build a 16" devastator. They were never going to make weapon sets for Kup and Perceptor. And Takara was never going to build an "eye of metroplex" accessory.

Yeah, I'll admit the igear seekers may have stepped on their repaint plans, but otherwise, it's hard to imagine that the major 3rdP companies haven't just made the brand much stronger. I know my interest in TF is phenomenally higher than it would be otherwise.

HT has to condemn this practice from an IP legal standpoint, but I seriously doubt they think it's affecting their bottom line. I'll bet the people that work there designing TFs secretly have a bunch of 3rdP products under their desks... you know, for... uh, research, yeah, research.

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

...it's hard to imagine that the major 3rdP companies haven't just made the brand much stronger. I know my interest in TF is phenomenally higher than it would be otherwise...

same here...my interest skyrocketed once Hercules came out...but it did nothing for my interest in official product...in fact, it made me like it even less...its complete a$$ by comparison IMO...aside from an occasional MP, i get NOTHING from Has/Tak...

but that makes sense, cause like you guys said, they arent trying to market to us, not enough $$$ in it...so the fact that most of what they sell i consider lame, isnt really a surprise...

i think another reason they arent really doing anything about it (aside from the fact that its insanely difficult) is that 3rd parties arent stealing their core customers...kids arent buying 3P stuff, so Hasbro isnt worried in the least...

i wonder what they do if all of a sudden 3P products were priced in direct compitition with their stuff?...still probably nothing as they would never find their way to Walmart/Target/TRU shelves...

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

you guys seen these?...i love the designs...very cool, but its nothing i'd ever spend money on...

 

[nacho]

same here...my interest skyrocketed once Hercules came out...but it did nothing for my interest in official product...in fact, it made me like it even less...its complete a$$ by comparison IMO...aside from an occasional MP, i get NOTHING from Has/Tak...

but that makes sense, cause like you guys said, they arent trying to market to us, not enough $$$ in it...so the fact that most of what they sell i consider lame, isnt really a surprise...

i think another reason they arent really doing anything about it (aside from the fact that its insanely difficult) is that 3rd parties arent stealing their core customers...kids arent buying 3P stuff, so Hasbro isnt worried in the least...

i wonder what they do if all of a sudden 3P products were priced in direct compitition with their stuff?...still probably nothing as they would never find their way to Walmart/Target/TRU shelves...

Agreed. Hasbro's offerings are lame, but I'm not buying many because I have no interest in figures from the new animation or bayformers. The annual wave of CHUG figures and the annual MP release are the only things they produce that even blip my radar. But it's not the 3P's fault. If anything, they are the reason I'm still interested in anything HasTak produces.

However, it seems as though they are getting more forceful with their stance against 3P products. TFW2005 is buzzing this morning about the new botcon dealer contract. Short version: if you set up and display or sell anything not licensed by HasTak, it will be confiscated and become FunPub property. Period. As a result, the dealer floor is going to become a wasteland of bayformers and overpriced MOC figures you've never heard of from 1987.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

To me it's a slightly dick move on their part. I'd like to see the guys at Funpub try to confiscate anything after their gigantic fuckup with the Club's membership database being lost. Contracts be damned. That's "theft" as well, idiots.

Unless law enforcement is involved, I can't imagine it being remotely successful.

 

[nacho]

I had that thought as well. I had to replace two f#%& cards because of their inability to properly host a database.

But it will backfire. They will have less dealers, and those dealers will sell less b/c you know that 3rd party shit sells like crazy. Thus the long term effects on the con and the club will be negative. But let's face it, FunPub isn't exactly known for it's forward thinking, proactive policies, customer friendliness, or general competence.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

I file them under "functioning retard", myself. Much like an alcoholic who can somehow hold down a family and job while being completely tanked.

Most of the attendees to those things are after vintage or collector items, and I assume a small fraction will give a damn about anything retail that they can find at regular stores anyways. I've never even dealt with the TF side of FunPub, but I can't imagine their management or approach is much different than the Joe side.

 

[nacho]

It's the same people for both clubs. There is no distinction.

To show my displeasure, I'm going to order the oversized PE scout team. That's a 4th party knock-off of an existing unlicensed 3rd party item: a double whammy!

And I'm going to pay with paypal, and the item will arrive in a timely fashion from china, and my financial information will not be compromised. Funny how easy it is. If a guy who calls himself "chimungmung" can figure it out, you'd think the officially sanctioned club could too.

 

[Mandingo Rex]

Ooooh link? I wanted to get that Reflector set but it was severely under scaled. That's the same one you're talking about, right?

 

[nacho]

Yeah, the Perfect Effect Scouting Force (aka "Not Reflector")... some chinese company made an oversized KO of it. You'll have to give it a proper paint job, I have no idea about the quality, and shipping is always crazy high... but I've ordered from this place 8-10 times with no trouble.

http://chimungmung.com/product_info.php?products_id=439

Here's a link to someone doing a proper paint/customization job, and the first pic gives you a good sense of both scale and quality. I assume quality is not great, but it'll be a good base for a project.

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/radicons-customs/546434-oversize-pe-reflector-wip.html

 

[G.I.*EDDIE]

Short version: if you set up and display or sell anything not licensed by HasTak, it will be confiscated and become FunPub property. Period. As a result, the dealer floor is going to become a wasteland of bayformers and overpriced MOC figures you've never heard of from 1987.

i'd LOVE it, if there were zero dealers there due to this policy...see how they'd like that big ole "F*@# YOU!"

 

[nacho]

W/o 3P products, it'll just be high-end collector stuff, from eras that I've never heard of (and apparently there are a lot of those in the history of TF, as I ignore pretty much anything after 1987....) Everyone who gives a shit has an Optimus Prime already.

I can just see the kids, "Look dad, it's a mint-on-card Barnstorm from the Agriculture Pretender Masters sub line. Each one turns into a farm implement. And over there is Plow, Harvester, and Silotron. They combine to form Fertilizor!"

 

[Mandingo Rex]

You joke. But collectors would buy that.

Anything like Leo Ligertron or what the fuck ever only existed in Japan, I don't give a damn about. Sixshot? A six-changer? Sounds cool, but means nothing to me.

 

[nacho]

I know. They struggle to make two different modes look like anything. Triple changers were a travesty toy-wise (although Springer became a cool character). But a six-changer... "this is a battle platform, but if you twist his leg down two clicks, he becomes a gun, and if you stick his arms out a little bit, he becomes a laser cannon, and if you stick his arms ALL the way out, he's an airplane..." It borders on absurdity, and none of the modes actually look like anything.

That's what I love about '84-'86. The original characters were cool, and dinobots and combiners were a fun addition. But after a while, it was as if they felt the need to one-up the previous year rather than focus on making fun toys and interesting characters. The oneupsmanship just sucked all the fun out of it when power head master pretenders came along. They couldn't even bother to give them real names. "Apeface" really, that's all they could manage? And the japanese-only characters that came later were even worse. TF was a victim of it's own success.

It reminds me of that scene in Something About Mary, when the crazy guy comes up with a pitch for 7-Minute Abs. Invariably someone will "invent" 6-Minute Abs...